SPACE November 2022 (No. 660)
Key Personnel Standing at a Crossroads: The Story of the Third or Fourth Years Employees
Jeon Joongseob FHHH FRIENDS, Jung Eunho former HAEAHN Architecture, Jeong Pilran Gansam Architects & Partners, Ha Hyerim former MASS STUDIES
× SPACE
In What Ways Will the Criteria for Selecting an Office Change?
SPACE It’s been three or four years since you all entered the architectural design industry. All of you have held your first professional position, and have either changed practice or left the field. Let’s first talk about what your criteria you adopted when you were selecting the office for your first job.
Jung Eunho (Jung) I graduated from the Department of Architecture at Myongji University. More than 100 students were enrolled, and more than 80% of them went into ateliers, so I concluded that I should work at an atelier as well. But when I was in my fourth year, I had the opportunity to work as part of a group research project with research students and follow in their footsteps when contemplating how an architect comes to open their own design office. Most people claimed that their experience in a large-scale architectural design office in the U.S. or Korea was a virtue. And that was when I began to change my mind. Around the same time, I had an opportunity to look at a collection of design proposals by HAEAHN Architecture (hereinafter HAEAHN). In the case of a large-scale architectural design office, I didn’t have high hopes in terms of its design, since I just thought such an office would prioritise commercial gain. However, the design proposal itself clearly presented the direction that each project pursued as well as the density of housing. Meanwhile, when I was in my fifth year, I won a big award at the LH design competition, and I became interested in apartment housing. Eventually, I was able to get a job at HAEAHN. Of course, the financial aspect was taken into consideration. I gained practical experience in the design competition and working design team of the apartment housing department in HAEAHN for four years. Once I decided to study abroad, I left the office.
Jeong Pilran (Jeong) In my first and second years at college, I had several opportunities to meet with people in the field through programmes such as field trips to architectural design offices and mentor schemes. Of the architectural design offices that I experienced at that time, I most admired the vibe of ING Architecture (hereinafter ING). In short, the office had a lively and cheerful atmosphere, where people freely exchanged critiques, and I also felt a similar impression when I was interviewing for the job there. There are times when the radiating vibe of the office represents the office most accurately, right? Once I started working, I realised that the office didn’t have a vertical hierarchy. I worked for four years as part of the working design team in ING. Later, I came to Seoul, and it’s been four months since I started working in the the future environmental design headquarters department in Gansam Architects & Partners (hereinafter Gansam).
Ha Hyerim (Ha) I went to college later in life and even took a leave of absence from school several times, so when I back from German to Korea, I was in a big hurry. Without a specific plan, I applied to many ateliers, and some of them replied to me. However, when I was interviewing for a job at one particular office, a design principal gave me some advice, saying ‘Our office would be a good choice for you, but I would like you to go to a slightly larger atelier, like MASS STUDIES (hereinafter MASS)’. Even my professor told me to get a job at MASS. I guess everyone thought that MASS would be a good starting point to begin a career. The first project that I took charge of at MASS was Bamseom Danginri Live. Since it was a large-scale project of ten people, I learned how to handle partial tasks rather than learning the whole scope of work, step by step. So, from time to time, I think about what it would have been like if I got a job at an architectural design office that is smaller than MASS. I worked at MASS for a total of three and a half years. Now I am taking a break from working in order to prepare for studying abroad in Germany, taking on the architects qualifying examination, and working on NFT art activity.
Jeon Joongseob (Jeon) I worked as an intern at my first atelier, and I was surprised by the lowerthan-expected salary for full-time employees. When I heard that it as similar at other ateliers, I decided not to switch to full-time employment and to quit. I spent about six months taking a break and reorganising my portfolio. I worked on my portfolio in a café, and I often went to a café designed by THE FIRST PENGUIN (hereinafter T-FP), an office that mainly worked on interior design at the time. A different world was opening out to me, built with specific materials, rather than the white walls that I found and made at school. And it was even looking trendy! Thinking that ‘You can design a nice space without practising architecture’, I joined T-FP. Since then, working at T-FP, what can be done on the interior scale and what needs to be done on the architectural scale began to be distinguished. Since then, I decided to go back to an architectural design office. After working there for two years, I moved to FHHH FRIENDS (hereinafter FHHH).
SPACE When you left the office that you had been working at for some time, you must have had a clearer sense of your criteria than when you were deciding on first office.
Jeon I plan to open my own office someday. With this in mind, I wanted to learn, from a management point of view, how to delegate work in an office with a few more people. T-FP had about 13 employees, and one or two people lead a single project. When there are more people in a team, the less efficient it will be, so I wanted to learn how it could be more progressively run. I also had a criterion that the office would take on buildings of devise uses and functions. I was thinking about ONE O ONE architects, MASS with its 50 employees, or even FHHH that is a little smaller in size. At that time, FHHH was recruiting. FHHH had 13 employees and was similar in size to T-FP, but it had different ways of forming the team with three design principals. Two or three employees work for each design principal, and the staff rotates the team every two years to work for different design principals. As a matter of fact, it is an office with three ateliers, each atelier of four people.
Jung When you work in a large-scale architectural design office, you are placed at a crossroads in your third or fourth years to choose one of two paths: whether to specialise in designing for the building type to which you have been devoting yourself, or to expand your scope to other building types. A large organisation is structured in such a way that individuals are directed to continue to improve and develop expertise in an area in which they have been doing well. I was also in charge of apartment housing, but I had to expand my scope to other building types since I planned to open my own office, and so, eventually, I decided to leave. In fact, recently, HAEAHN has also been making an effort to broaden the experience and competence of the individual employee. A single ‘department’ was formed in units of 50 people, but last year a ‘division’ of 150 people was created by combining three departments. Once a division was formed, the transfer between departments became smoother. In the case of larger projects, it is rare for a residential project to only include residential usage. The office also needed to improve the office’s structure so that people from various fields can form a team to run the project. Most importantly, managers started to listen to the people in the field.
Jeong I also moved jobs to expand my working scope. ING mainly handled projects related to government offices, so I was only in charge of limited building types such as schools and sports facilities. When I was in my third year at the office, I thought it was time to learn something new. Since ING was considered a large-scale architectural design office in Busan with great welfare, offices in Seoul were the best options if I wish to go to an office with a better working environment that handles new building types other than government offices. As Jung Eunho mentioned, I was aware of the ecosystem of a large-scale architectural design office that wishes to request the employees to work on a task with proven ability, so I emphasised my experience in working on the working drawing, and now I am designed working drawings. One day I might be assigned to the design competition team. This is because, while the working design team and design competition team are clearly distinguished in ING, in Gansam, a project team is formed first, and then the manpower is flexibly applied between the design competition and working drawing.
Ha I stayed at an artists’ residency in Germany for three months as a sculptor, but when I returned to Korea, there weren’t many offices that I wanted to join. Personally, I was not motivated because I thought that not many Korean architects were telling their own stories. MASS, who eventually joined the company, was able to meet various and famous clients and projects, but the speed of learning was slower than other friends who worked in small-scale atelier. In addition, working under a famous architect, it was a working atmosphere in which I have to follow the architect’s style. As I worked in a given direction only, I thought I should become independent or move from job to job. Eventually, the year changed three times since I joined the company, and as of July 1 this year, I quit.
Jeon If you wanted to work at an office where you can more freely express your thoughts, an office run by an architect with a defined architectural philosophy would not have been a good fit for you. FHHH has a relatively different working environment from the existing artist’s office. While other design principals enforce what they want and admire, design principals at FHHH only share what they don’t like. As long as you agree with what they don’t like, you can propose anything. They ask the employee to do the planning from the beginning, and if the proposed plan looks great, the design principal even develops the employee’s proposal. I was embarrassed since I had taken too much initiative. (laugh)
When you work in a large-scale
architectural design office,
you are placed at a crossroads
in your third or fourth years to choose
one of two paths:
whether to specialise in designing for the
building type
to which you have been devoting yourself,
or to expand your scope to other building
types.
Why Aren’t There Third or Fourth Years in the Office?
SPACE There is a phrase that is in common use in the architectural design industry: ‘There are no third or fourth years in the office’. I would like to speculate why that is in common. There are third or fourth years who quit their job to prepare for the architects qualifying examination. What is life like when you have to work and prepare for an exam at the same time? Is it possible for the office to support these conditions?
Ha It was physically demanding! Working at an office and preparing for the architects qualifying examination at the same time was demanding. As the date of the exam approaches, I felt a sense of debt to do the assignment. Even if it was 9 or 10 pm, I tried out one problem, and then the time was soon past midnight. My entire life was a repetition of work tasks and preparing for the exam.
Jung In my case, after I quit the job, I stopped studying the language for a study abroad year for a while and focused on preparing for the architects qualifying examination. I went to an architectural design office that I knew well, set the first, second, and third periods just like the actual exam, and solved the problems of each subject. I did not quit the job for the sake of preparing for the architect’s license. The time was just right. People prepare for the exams for lawyers and tax accountants in a small room (an accommodation for students studying for exams), almost risking their life, but we prepare for the architects qualifying examination while working. Since this is possible, it means that it’s a relatively easy test. It also feels like a diploma that you get when you can afford to pass it, after graduating from the architecture department. There is also a atelier of six people that supports its employees to register for a private academy to prepare for the architects qualifying examination. From the perspective of a small-scale atelier, if employees who have acquired an architect’s license, there is a replacement when the representative architect is warned and the architect’s qualification is suspended or canceled for a certain period of time. It is understood that when the developer contracts with the office, the number of registered architects inside the office is also an important evaluation factor. This may be one of the reasons why registered architects are welcome at medium-scale or larger offices seeking to win largescale projects. If the office needs employees with an architect’s license, there are plenty of reasons for the office to support employees in obtaining it. In spite of this, it seems very difficult for the office to support employees in studying for the exam. This is because it is not a test that you prepare in a short period of time and pass at once. If it takes five years to get the license, and so the office has to support its employee for five years. On the contrary, it seems like offices are active in providing compensation once their employees get the license. Up until last year, I heard that some architectural design office raised the salary of those employees who gained an architect’s license, and now the firm gives its employees cash bonuses as an incentive.
SPACE Aren’t third or fourth years flocking into certain offices, like HAEAHN, that are known for better salaries and job welfare?
Jung In HAEAHN, there is a saying that ‘HAEAHN is the grave of the architectural design industry’. It means that people try out the design in HAEAHN, and whoever doesn’t feel like its future is promising go into another industry. In fact, many people including third or fourth years move their jobs to HAEAHN. However, there are many cases where the work-life balance does not reach their expectations, resulting in leaving work again. When I asked my friends who are in the IT and manufacturing industries, I was told that the circumstances of the manpower market in those fields are the same. Perhaps this disappearance of third or fourth years from the office is a phenomenon of our time.
Working at an office and preparing for the
architects qualifying examination
at the same time was demanding.
Even if it was 9 or 10 pm, I tried out one
problem,
and then the time was soon past midnight.
My entire life was a repetition of work
tasks
and preparing for the exam.
What Will My Future Look Like if I Continue in the Design?
SPACE How do you plan for the future after changing jobs, leaving work, and afterwards? What is the future of your career path or life as you look at senior colleagues or design principals in the office?
Jeong My shortest goal is to get a license, and I don’t have any other plans afterwards. Since the community in Seoul is well-formed compared to that in Busan, I assume I will be able to find new information and possibilities for my career. So, I plan to make a more specific plan a bit later.
Jung I thought that it would be difficult to stay more than ten years at a large-scale architectural design office. There are cases where you have to do something you don’t want to do, such as sales. I’d rather open my own office.
Ha As I know, in the case of MASS, there is absolutely no need to do the sales. However, since each person has different tendencies, the fun of life will be different, but the daily life of an office worker who has to live as if he were running in a hamsert wheel did not suit me. The reason why I am preparing to study abroad in a sculpture department in Germany is that I have determined that Germany is a suitable country for both architecture and sculpture. German architecture, which is obsessed with details, fits well with my design tendency, and there are many good offices, so it would be interesting if I continue to work as an architect. As an architect, it is also a great pleasure to experience masterpieces such as the New National Gallery in Berlin in everyday life. On the sculpture side, when I was in Berlin, it didn’t seem so difficult to obtain an artist visa in Germany, and I felt that my tendency to work was well received in the German art market. In fact, a gallery director who saw the exhibition of the residency finale suggested an individual exhibition.
Jeon In terms of deciding a on one aspect of life, when I was a student, I thought the design was a job that demands one’s time in an extreme way so I should give up marriage to achieve my dream. At FHHH, I changed this thinking. Design principals brought their children to the office and spent time with them, and they seemed so happy. Seeing how both practising architecture and having a married life can be done well, I became optimistic that I could have both at the same time.
Jung In the case of HAEAHN, there is no restriction on using childcare leave, but it seems that male employees using childcare leave have not yet been culturally established. That’s why it seems to be a company that more women want to come to, and in fact, if you look at the ratio of working-level employees excluding executives, there are more women. You even receive an incentive when you get married. Welfare for women is great, but if you look at the executive level, all of them are men.
It Is Advisable for the Working Environment of the Architectural Design Industry to Remain as It Is?
SPACE In general, are you satisfied with the working environment of your office?
Jung Large-scale architectural design offices seem to be trying to raise wages, and such burdensome efforts can be sensed. But, the rate of increase in annual salary is relatively low, so there is a period that offers a small difference in annual salary between positions and years.
Jeon In the case of FHHH, there is no welfare system. You can simply record your vacation on a shared calendar. Anyone can modify it, so the design principal cannot figure out if anyone takes a few more days off. The design principal says in a mischievous way, ‘Somebody is erasing the records of vacation use’. But he still does not introduce any formal restrictions. When we speak out about things to improve, the design principal accepts them most of the time, but when he doesn’t feel good, he does not accept it. (laugh) Still, it is understandable because the office has a very friendly atmosphere. Although a welfare system is not established, the friendly atmosphere itself can be considered as supporting employee wellbeing. Neither the employees nor the design principals feel the need to establish the system.
Ha Giving meals is the greatest kind of welfare. It’s really difficult to prepare two meals a day while working, is it not?
Jeong ING also has a canteen for the staff. The welfare of providing lunch in medium- to large-scale architectural design offices seems to be gathering pace.
Jeon In our office, the design principal personally grills pork belly. We even installed a duct to grill pork belly. (laugh)
In the case of FHHH FRIENDS,
there is no welfare system.
When we speak out about things to improve,
the design principal accepts them most of
the time,
but when he doesn’t feel good, he does not
accept it. (laugh)
Although a welfare system is not
established,
the friendly atmosphere itself can be considered
as supporting employee wellbeing.
SPACE Let’s think about issues such as the architectural design industry and society beyond the scale of the office. Is there any way of improving the working environments of the architectural design industry?
Jung As a Korean architect, it would be great for established architects who are creating the value of architecture to speak out about the labour conditions or working environments of the design, but I think it is impossible since they have their own lives as well. Nevertheless, I think that the custom of established architects to design without receiving a design fee should be avoided.
Ha A few days ago, I had a drink with a friend. We got to talk about issues like ‘Aren’t you living in an apartment right now too, right?’ or ‘Aren’t you living in a studio?’ People pursuing the design can make a living when they have a good client, but whoever with the potential to become a client is living in an apartment. Since the pie of good clients is small, it seems like it is structured so that it has no choice but to do a lot of work on little money. Nowadays, even in Korea, many people invest a lot in commercial spaces such as cafés and hotels, even though they are not residential. With this kind of small and yet marked progress, wouldn’t the design fee increase and the labour environment in the architectural design industry become marginally better?
Then Why Do We Still Pursue the Design?
SPACE It would be great if the working conditions could be improved by raising the design fee, but it will not be resolved in such a short period of time. Although you all know that fact, you will continue to pursue the design.
Jeong The fact that there is always something to learn is an appealing aspect. Even in residential projects, there are projects of different natures, such as redevelopment housing and LH business housing. In more detail, even if you draw a construction drawing for the windows and doors, it will be applied differently depending on the conditions of each project. Once you respond to different circumstances well, you feel like you have made progress.
Ha Sculpture is highly satisfactory in that the finished work is a complete realisation of an idea that I had envisioned in my head. However, the design requires many people working as a team on each project, so the final outcome is not something that I envision, and there is a big gap between the vision and its realisation. Nevertheless, the fact that it is realisation on a largescale is an enchanting aspect that is difficult to explain. One day I think about working on sculpture only, but the other day I would like to pursue the design.
Jung When I was a student, my professor said, ‘If you major in architecture, you can succeed even if you open a fried chicken restaurant’. Now that I think about it, I think the professor meant to emphasise the planning. You have to carry out each project from beginning to end, and even as a student, you finish one project per semester, meaning at least ten projects until you graduate. In terms of business, you have already run ten businesses as a student.
Jeon Designing makes me wonder what it means to live well. After undergoing such a formative process, I was able to set my own standards for living and life. I can apply a standard of living to a space, also. Being an architect is a very attractive occupation in that I can create elements of my life with which I can be satisfied.
